36 Comments

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  Comment by Stacy Potts — August 5, 2010 @ 12:59 pm

  Which was then followed up by another bestselling book – Eat, Talk, Pray: A Guide to Leading Baptist Small Groups.

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  Comment by Christina — August 5, 2010 @ 1:03 pm

  Funny!

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  Comment by Brad — August 5, 2010 @ 1:19 pm

  I prefer the newest offering from Mr. Warren, “The Casserole Driven Meal”.

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  Comment by Carol — August 5, 2010 @ 2:26 pm

  I thought it was called “Purpose Driven Stomach”?

  How to make the most of green bean casserole?

  Or Draw the goats to the pen with a feeding frenzy!

  It seems the only drawing cards for the masses today is either cheap entertainment or food! It certainly isn’t opening a Bible and actually sharing from it.

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  Comment by Mike Miller — August 5, 2010 @ 4:08 pm

  I heard there is a chapter on how to avoid an all green bean casserole potluck. That could help so there is not another tragedy like the Langley Baptist Church.

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  Comment by Denita — August 5, 2010 @ 4:12 pm

  How about Joel Osteen’s newest salad cookbook, “Your Best Leaf Now”…

• 

  Comment by Chris Bloom — August 5, 2010 @ 5:12 pm

  @Carol — Supper and Bible study CAN be combined. You run the risk of getting chicken grease all over your Bible, but in the SBC we just call that “anointing”.

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  Comment by Rich Errington — August 6, 2010 @ 12:32 am

  works for Methodists and Lutherans too…

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  Comment by Dominic — August 6, 2010 @ 2:45 am

  I gather the ’social gospel’ churches are getting together to produce a book called “Feed them first…”

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  Comment by Harry — August 6, 2010 @ 9:09 am

  Olsteens has a great reciepe for “jerk” chicken.

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  Comment by Les — August 6, 2010 @ 9:17 am

  Funny! I suppose there is a chapter in there on how to get back to the dessert table for seconds and thirds on the homemade cherry pie without appearing glutinous?

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  Comment by Les — August 6, 2010 @ 9:18 am

  Now it occurs to me that that Baptists may never feel glutinous though it’s probably not a good idea to dance with anticipation on the way to the dessert table.

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  Comment by Kendall — August 6, 2010 @ 9:51 am

  I just “converted” from Pentecostal to Baptist…is THIS what I have to look forward to? We had a “diversity” of casseroles!

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  Comment by Les — August 6, 2010 @ 9:58 am

  I mean gluttonous, if they were glutinous they would be in a very sticky mess.

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  Comment by Kendall — August 6, 2010 @ 10:41 am

  And their feet would never leave the floor…no dancing OR slain in the spirit on the way to the desserts!

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  Comment by Committed Christian — August 6, 2010 @ 3:14 pm

  One thing I miss about the first baptist church I ever attended was the many potlucks we had!

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  Comment by Carol — August 6, 2010 @ 6:52 pm

  It there was an “anointing” on the dessert table, someone would be praying that it would be multiplied…like the fishes and loaves….Somehow I don’t think that would work in a gluttonous event….

• 

  Comment by Carol — August 6, 2010 @ 6:54 pm

  Now, this is an idea to throw around, for those who have their fingers covered with bbq sauce or greasy chicken, the “Bible” study, could be one of those “Bibles on DVD” they could show on their BIG screen Hi Def Digitial TV’s.

• 

  Comment by Chris Bloom — August 6, 2010 @ 9:58 pm

  As a member of a church that likes to eat — about half the congregation is ladies over 60, so you know we’ve got some good cooking around — I’d like to point out that not everyone uses potlucks to draw the unsuspecting masses in. Our monthly get-together is more of a family-reunion affair; we all bring a dish (and not 50 GBCs) we eat together, then we have our prayer meeting or Bible study. And as a small old-timey church, there’s only the one TV in the nursery, and it’s far too small to read the Bible on from behind a slab of chocolate cake.

  And yes, I’m about 30lbs. overweight.

• 

  Comment by Les — August 7, 2010 @ 12:36 pm

  Chris, my old church was that way too and I miss it. Our favorite hymn should have been Sheep May Safely Graze by J.S. Bach.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbTGUurbGTk&feature=related

  I don’t think anyone could ever accuse J.S. Bach of not enjoying church potlucks. He probably wrote the chapters in Pray Eat Talk on music and menu or at least inspired them.

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  Comment by Carol — August 7, 2010 @ 12:45 pm

  From my own experience with “potlucks” the same people sat at the same tables and never mixed with others. It was more like a group of cliques and this isn’t really much of a “family” thing when it’s divided.

  It’s also not a fun thing when the same people get in line first, and by the time the “not so popular” people get to the table, the food has been picked over and not much left, this also isn’t much of a testimony for those seeking a church home.

  A church should never big so big that the “pastor” can’t know all of his sheep. If it’s so big as the mega churches, it’s not a true flock at all!

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  Comment by Bereanwarrior — August 7, 2010 @ 3:29 pm

  Carol said – “If it’s so big as the mega churches, it’s not a true flock at all!”

  I think I know enough about you to believe that you really don’t mean this. If you really do mean it, what verse do you use to support that?

  There are a number of congregations like the many “Sovereign Grace” churches where the Lord has blessed them with solid teaching and large numbers of people. Other places like Grace Community Church, 10th Presbyterian, St. Andrews Chapel, and others have numbers that are too large for one man to know everyone. This is why they have a board of Elders (who are technically Pastors as well by definition) who watch over the sheep. The flock doesn’t cease to be one just because it grows to the point of the Pastor not knowing all the “sheep”.

  I invite you to reconsider your comment. Christ knows His flock, and His flock knows Him, even in “mega-churches”.

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  Comment by Les — August 7, 2010 @ 9:43 pm

  Cliques forming during pot lucks are as old as the church just check out Galatians 2:1-14 or James 2:1-12. Cliques are unscriptural but I’ve seen such things happen in small churches as well as larger ones.This will continue until all of the saints are perfected in Christ.

  I used to go to a ‘mega’ church where the pastor could not possibly know all of the members because it was the only church in the area I could find that featured solid, Biblical expository preaching. I found fellowship in a Sunday school taught by one of the deacons. Small churches that feature sound expository preaching sometimes become ‘mega’ churches in a few years because they are like an oasis in a desert.

  I’m sure this issue is mentioned in Pray, Eat, Talk alongside recipe tips from Mrs. J.S. Bach.

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  Comment by Frank Patriot — August 8, 2010 @ 12:25 pm

  Where two or more are gathered together, bring a covered dish.

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  Comment by Carol — August 8, 2010 @ 2:32 pm

  I speak from experience of being a member of both a large church and a small one. When the pastor thinks it’s his privelege to be paid a package deal as though he’s a CEO of a corporation, yet lacks the love and discernment to shepherd the flock that has been appointed to him, it’s TOO big. There should be smaller congregations with leaders who don’t take their position as an office, but are true leaders with true hearts. There has been too much arrogance in leadership that they dictate to the people what goes. This is abuse. I’ve seen it in both the larger church and the small one. When people get big ideas from something they see on tv they take their eyes off God and just focus on their big ideas.

  It’s not a true fellowship if there are divisions and cliques. And making excuses that it’s going to be that way until we’re perfected is not acceptable. We are accountable to one another and we are to be united through the Holy Spirit. When cliques and popularity contests go on in churches, they aren’t focusing on God or the true faith but promoting “religion” which is dry and lifeless.

  When there is favoritism taking place among those who are called church “leaders”, deacons, elders, bishops…to certain people who put the most money in the collection plate is not pleasing God, it’s called sin. When they favor those who dress well, and drive new cars it’s called sin.

  When people are outcasts among the “church” people, who sets the standard of measure? Why are those who aren’t the best dressers, or the ones who can’t afford a new car shunned and ignored and treated like lepers? When people are shunned and ignored, they see what the church really stands for, a popularity club for a select few. When you see that happening, you don’t stay. Even if they claim to be Bible Expositors, if they are not living what they claim to be preaching, why are they there? IF not for the money or fame of having a big church…it’s tragic but it’s true.

  When someone speaks out about something they’ve experienced, they have been badly hurt by the church organization. People need to feel some compassion on people who have been cast out by so called church “leadership”. They don’t need to be bashed for their comments, they need embraced. Not more shunning and judgment.

  I don’t usually go into this depth on blogs, but saints have been abused by churches. They are to be an oasis in the dessert lands of the world. But instead of being a source of comfort, it’s become a source of pain and devastation.

  Please, show love, not demand a “Bible verse” to support my experience with organized religion as though my hurt was all in my head.

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  Comment by Carol — August 8, 2010 @ 2:32 pm

  ..looking for fellowship and compassion, not judgment and ridicule.

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  Comment by Les — August 8, 2010 @ 3:49 pm

  Carol, I am sorry for your pain. I’m not making excuses for what happened, the verses I gave showed that the Word specifically condemns such behavior, especially between the richer and poorer. I have been hurt too and have left church close to tears that is why I can so easily recall these specific scriptural passages. Paul deals with the same situation in 1 Corinthians where he had a cliquish church of super duper saints who tolerated an incestuous relationship. I visited a church where no one would speak to me when I tried to ask if an empty seat was available. The pastor saw what happened and reprimanded the congregation. I’ve never returned to that church and would never recommend it to anyone-ever. I know a pastor who gave a guest sermon and no one spoke to him after the service. I can honestly tell you many such stories about myself and my friends but I can also think back and know there have been times when I have been the cold, rude one and so accepted such treatment from others as chastening. I have also been motivated to pray for the pastors and churches in my area.

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  Comment by Les — August 8, 2010 @ 3:50 pm

  @Frank, “Where two or more are gathered together, bring a covered dish.”

  And a serving spoon.

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  Comment by Cory D. Jones — August 9, 2010 @ 6:27 am

  Frank and Les – You have over-simplified the process… You see, if your last name begins with A-G, you should bring a main dish; if your last name starts with H-O, please bring a side; and if your name begins with P-Z, please bring a dessert. And everyone should bring the proper serving-ware for your dish. Drinks will be provided from last weeks benevolence offering, salads will be provided by the senior’s group, and the youth are responsible for cleaning up afterwards. Good thing we just ordered a bunch of Sham-Wow Prayer Cloths!

  I mean, it’s all so simple… Once they have a full stomach, his sheep know his voice, but until then, it’s iffy.

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  Comment by Chris Bloom — August 10, 2010 @ 9:35 am

  If the youth were responsible for cleaning up afterward … we’d be one stinkin’ church.

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  Comment by Bereanwarrior — August 10, 2010 @ 11:32 pm

  Carol – First, let me ask you to read this carefully and to really think about this before you reply.
  I asked you previously to consider your assertion that a Mega-Church could not contain a true flock. In your reply, you did not provide any biblical grounds for such a comment, and what you did provide was heavily based on man-centered opinion and personal experience. I would like to call to your attention that those are precisely the things you rail against in your diatribes concerning the post modern church. In fact, those are precisely the reasons why the post modern church has come to be. People ignore the teachings of Scripture and create a church to suit their felt needs instead of to equip people with the truth.
  I did, and compassionately I might add, ask you to base your comments from Scripture for the express purpose of hoping you would come to the understanding that you made a general statement and assumption from how you feel and not from reason. Anytime a statement is made from the seat of judgment, which is where you placed yourself with your original assertion, it must be backed with Scripture or it is not valid.
  I’m sorry you have been hurt by insensitive or unscriptural churches in the past. It drags Christ’s precious Name through the mud when that happens. However, it is not a license to drag all other churches that don’t meet your personal requirements or expectations through the mud as well. Your original statement, as well as other statements in your additional posts through this thread, was just as judgmental and biased as the people you are referring to. To make another post asking for compassion and fellowship and not judgment and ridicule after you “pen” a post of nothing but judgment and ridicule is unreasonable as well. All I am asking is that you please consider your statements carefully before passing judgment in the future. Christ knows His flock, and His flock knows Him.
  Sorry Angus. Delete if you so desire.

• 

  Comment by Carol — August 15, 2010 @ 4:01 pm

  It’s a curious thing that I’ve discovered here. When I make comments about things I’ve seen or experienced, it may come across as being judgmental by a few folks. But the church is a real organism and it has goats among the sheep, and that includes the “leadership” positions. Not all churches have goats for leaders, but there are more goats than true shepherds in this day and age. I’m not attacking those who are doing the best they can with what they have to work with.

  Small churches have their issues as well, especially if the leadership is not content with the sheep they have, but are more focused on becoming a bigger church. They have to have a bigger building not because they have more people, but for those who have big egoes. How many saints have been burdened with leadership who strains their sheep to spend more money than they really have seeking a larger church building to maintain the ego of the leaders?

  It may have been misunderstood in my comment, but I’m not saying that all churches are bad, and that all potluck dinners are bad. What I am trying to say, is that these gatherings should be focused on gathering together to worship and honor God. If there is a need from someone in the congregation, such as an illness, or a financial need, or some other issue, people should have compassion and try to help those who are suffering from any situation. It should not be ignored and people should not be ignored.

  If there are church leaders who read this post, I’m asking to consider what the Lord Jesus said to love one another. If there is any lacking it should be there to help another,not tear them down. Not to just focus on those who are well dressed and give more money. It’s good that there are people who are capable of giving money and if there are those who are less fortunate and cannot give as much, they should not be looked down upon in their situation.

  Again, there are true saints in every type of “church”. But I am concerned with leadership who are more focused on money than building up believers’ faith and growing spiritually. There seems to be more bad than good examples.

  I only wished there was more focus on the good things being done, rather than having to see the bad side of “church”. I only wish there was more being done in God’s name rather than for the sake of money.

  I’m sure there are strong leaders, but we are living in the end of days of this age and most have fallen away. The Word tells us of these things.

• 

  Comment by Carol — August 15, 2010 @ 4:17 pm

  Again, I felt I was being attacked because my comment was based on “my feelings than personal requirements”. You speak about me judging unfairly regarding matters and people that I felt I was being judged by. But you are doing this back at me.

  I didn’t go to church to have “felt needs” met or looking for some personal entertainment or appeal. I was seeking truth and seeking an oasis because the world is a desert place and the church is to help be a refuge from the world and not be so much like the world that it looks more like the world than it ought.

  If I seem upset and angry by it it’s because it has upset me, not only because it happened to me, but more so because I’ve seen too many people go for an oasis and was chewed up and spit back out. This is the dangerous practice being done. It’s real and attacking someone for speaking up about it is not done in love or the words judgmental and such other terms used would not be in the context of comments.

  And so, the Lord knows my heart and my hurt and my words are not to condemn all churches as being all bad, but for the majority this is a reflection, but not all.

  Enough said.

• 

  Comment by Alan — August 15, 2010 @ 11:38 pm

  Hi all, I have revisited this mini forum (which is what it has become here), about different churches and their good and bad points. A lot of what has been said has been god and valuable. One of the things I think we all need to get our heads around is this; Although it has become common to regard any form of criticism as ‘negative’ on the grounds that the words are harsh, or are spoken in anger, or maybe even could be considered abusive, this is not actually the way the Bible views things. Before you all take up stones to silence me, consider the many passages of scripture where a prophet of the Lord spoke out against the heresy around him. Some of the words used would be enough to stir the thickest skinned people to get offended. Jesus himself spoke to and of the Pharisees and Sadducees in the most abusively scathing terms. For example; to call a ‘devout’ Jew a snake was a dreadful epithet in that culture, similar to calling accusing a pastor of being a closet satan worshipper these days, the snake being most readily associated with the devil in the garden of Eden. Paul and Peter, James, John, & Jude speak of heretics and heresy in extremely harsh terms. Should the hearers have ignored their words because of the ‘unchristian’ tone? The Bible says we should welcome instruction and correction, if we hear truth in the words, whether or not they are spoken by a friend, an enemy, or even an ass (remember Balaam).
  My point is that we tend to negate correction or instruction if it’s delivered in a tone that offends us, but God’s view of our best efforts as “filthy rags” is about offensive as you can get. If you doubt that, look up what the original Greek phrase refers to. It’s not talking about floor cloths! (and that’s about as far as I’ll go here).
  We need to listen for the Truth of what’s being said and check our bibles to see if these things be so. If there’s no truth there, fine, ignore it graciously. If there is truth there and we need to address something in our lives, then we are duty bound to take it on board and be grateful for the spur that has brought us back on course, regardless of how the message is relayed. It will do no good for us to complain to God that “I ignored the message because it wasn’t spoken nicely.”
  A major part of our calling as followers of Christ is to “love the truth” (see II Thess 2:10b) and to use the bible as our only measure thereof. While I applaud the requests for verses to back up statements, the reality is that God has on occasion used non christians to point to some of my failings, so they’re hardly going to quote scripture, but the Holy Spirit brings to my mind the relevant scripture(s) whenever that happens, so I can’t fall back on the “Show me chapter & verse” line to avoid my responsibility to act on the correction I have received. So, let’s be gracious with one another and allow that a negative sounding comment, may actually not necessarily be an indication of the truth and validity of the statement, but rather an expression of the moral outrage of the person making it because of their love of the truth of God’s Word and their dislike of anything that goes against it. Let’s esteem one another greater than ourselves.
  Shalom,
  Alan.

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