Comments on: Things I Don’t Want To Hear Behind Me in Church http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/1388 Illustrated Journal for Small-Town Christians in the Big Bad World Wed, 16 May 2012 20:52:20 -0700 hourly 1 By: Marvin Arnold http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/1388/comment-page-2#comment-9167 Marvin Arnold Sat, 03 Dec 2011 22:54:58 +0000 http://sacredsandwich.com/?p=1388#comment-9167 I remember one christmas service where a teenage couple in front of me had nothing better to do than make out for the length of the service. Talk of distracting. I remember one christmas service where a teenage couple in front of me had nothing better to do than make out for the length of the service. Talk of distracting.

]]> By: Bereanwarrior http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/1388/comment-page-2#comment-8981 Bereanwarrior Sun, 02 Oct 2011 22:48:28 +0000 http://sacredsandwich.com/?p=1388#comment-8981 Claire said - "I can definitely understand why wearing a miniskirt that shows your thong to the whole church isn’t exactly appropriate. But at the same time, isn’t it petty and un-Christian to judge people by their clothes?" No, it's not un-Christian. Paul urged the women to dress modestly and the same applies to men. If you come into my church as an unbeliever or a new Christian dressed provocatively, then I would understand. However, if you name the name of Christ and say you want to honor him, then you would understand why inappropriate attire is sinful once you've been made aware of it, and you would show it by dressing conservatively. It works on both sides of the Isle. If a woman comes in wearing any type of revealing clothing, she is not responsible for the man's actual lust towards her, but she is responsible for tempting her brother is she is indeed a Christian. If a man comes in clothing that can cause a woman to lust, the same is true for him being a temptation. Claire said "I’ve heard too many sad stories about people being rejected from churches where they probably would have been saved because they didn’t follow the dress code." Church is NOT for unbelievers. Church is where the Shepherd feeds the sheep, not the goats. Our call as sheep is to go out among the wolves for evangelism and the making of disciples. In that process, we ourselves tell the "potential convert" the gospel message, and we bring them to church either to confirm the truth or as new sheep. At the time we disciple them, we should be telling them how holy God is and why we are to respect the house of God. It is not for a stage-show and it is not a come-as-you-were make-me-feel-good safe house. Reverence for God and His Word is critical, and the idea that "God made you special and He loves you very much" is what has perverted the western "church" into the debacle it is. (See Steven Furtick's Elevation "Church" for a prime example.) If you know people that put their desire to dress inappropriately above the desire to honor God, then they were improperly discipled and that's a shame. Claire said -"Someone above made a sarcastic comment about praying and repenting in low-rise jeans. Okay, a girl showing her butt crack might not be the most tasteful thing, but the point is she went up to the front to pray and repent! At this point she doesn’t care about your opinion, just God’s. If she cared what you thought, she wouldn’t have gotten up and risked embarrassing herself at all! And even if you want to consider her clothing choice something bad or sinful (which I think would be pretty silly), you have to remember, when someone goes to repent, they don’t already look the part. That comes later when you decide to change your lifestyle to fit your new faith." Again, as an unbeliever, grace should be given to her. Then she should be discipled, and it wouldn't be offensive to her to have someone explain why it's inappropriate to dress that way. God's opinion is crystal clear in the Scriptures and not even subject to your opinion either. Your view of disagreement is just that by the way... your opinion. The question is does your opinion line up with Scripture? I would submit that it doesn't. My opinion doesn't matter either. Scripture is the final authority. Claire said -"Also the “hold-on-to-your-husbands!” comment about girls in revealing clothes distracting lusty men is even more offensive to the poor guys that it is the girls. Men aren’t just sex-driven animals that sensible women have to restrain. They can control themselves. Anyone who says otherwise is just using the girls’ behavior to excuse the men’s behavior, which is not right." As a man, I would ask you to check yourself. If you act inappropriately, you are the stumbling block and that means your guilty of willful sin. Yes, men can control their actions, but sometimes the only way to control the thoughts is to either A) Close their eyes and fall into prayer which makes the offending woman either embarrassed or irritated, or B) the man leaves the area as to remove himself from the temptation. B is usually the avenue for a man who is truly trying to remain pure. The problem is that women could easily remedy the situation by dressing modestly. Claire said -"I think we need to stop worrying so much about appearances, and worry about more important things. I understand that we supposedly wear our “church clothes” out of respect for God’s house, but it seems like it’s more for the approval of other people. God doesn’t care what we look like, and He darned-well doesn’t care what we wear. Nothing we do can make Him love us more or less than He already does." First point here is that if we follow your logic, then there will be no difference between the church and the world. That is not biblical. We are to be set apart and holy. If we claim to know Christ, then we seek to glorify Him on His terms. We DO worry what God thinks, and we DO seek to be separate from the world while we are still in the world. We are not called to conform, but to testify. No, we can't do anything to make Him love us more or less, but we DO represent a Holy God who has no room for sin of any kind. To dress sinfully misrepresents His Nature and Character. Scripture is crystal clear that as Christians we are CHANGED from the inside out. If you really love the Truth, then you will not leave when you are confronted with the Truth. Claire said – “I can definitely understand why wearing a miniskirt that shows your thong to the whole church isn’t exactly appropriate. But at the same time, isn’t it petty and un-Christian to judge people by their clothes?”

No, it’s not un-Christian. Paul urged the women to dress modestly and the same applies to men. If you come into my church as an unbeliever or a new Christian dressed provocatively, then I would understand. However, if you name the name of Christ and say you want to honor him, then you would understand why inappropriate attire is sinful once you’ve been made aware of it, and you would show it by dressing conservatively. It works on both sides of the Isle. If a woman comes in wearing any type of revealing clothing, she is not responsible for the man’s actual lust towards her, but she is responsible for tempting her brother is she is indeed a Christian. If a man comes in clothing that can cause a woman to lust, the same is true for him being a temptation.

Claire said “I’ve heard too many sad stories about people being rejected from churches where they probably would have been saved because they didn’t follow the dress code.”

Church is NOT for unbelievers. Church is where the Shepherd feeds the sheep, not the goats. Our call as sheep is to go out among the wolves for evangelism and the making of disciples. In that process, we ourselves tell the “potential convert” the gospel message, and we bring them to church either to confirm the truth or as new sheep. At the time we disciple them, we should be telling them how holy God is and why we are to respect the house of God. It is not for a stage-show and it is not a come-as-you-were make-me-feel-good safe house. Reverence for God and His Word is critical, and the idea that “God made you special and He loves you very much” is what has perverted the western “church” into the debacle it is. (See Steven Furtick’s Elevation “Church” for a prime example.) If you know people that put their desire to dress inappropriately above the desire to honor God, then they were improperly discipled and that’s a shame.

Claire said -”Someone above made a sarcastic comment about praying and repenting in low-rise jeans. Okay, a girl showing her butt crack might not be the most tasteful thing, but the point is she went up to the front to pray and repent! At this point she doesn’t care about your opinion, just God’s. If she cared what you thought, she wouldn’t have gotten up and risked embarrassing herself at all! And even if you want to consider her clothing choice something bad or sinful (which I think would be pretty silly), you have to remember, when someone goes to repent, they don’t already look the part. That comes later when you decide to change your lifestyle to fit your new faith.”

Again, as an unbeliever, grace should be given to her. Then she should be discipled, and it wouldn’t be offensive to her to have someone explain why it’s inappropriate to dress that way. God’s opinion is crystal clear in the Scriptures and not even subject to your opinion either. Your view of disagreement is just that by the way… your opinion. The question is does your opinion line up with Scripture? I would submit that it doesn’t. My opinion doesn’t matter either. Scripture is the final authority.

Claire said -”Also the “hold-on-to-your-husbands!” comment about girls in revealing clothes distracting lusty men is even more offensive to the poor guys that it is the girls. Men aren’t just sex-driven animals that sensible women have to restrain. They can control themselves. Anyone who says otherwise is just using the girls’ behavior to excuse the men’s behavior, which is not right.”

As a man, I would ask you to check yourself. If you act inappropriately, you are the stumbling block and that means your guilty of willful sin. Yes, men can control their actions, but sometimes the only way to control the thoughts is to either A) Close their eyes and fall into prayer which makes the offending woman either embarrassed or irritated, or B) the man leaves the area as to remove himself from the temptation. B is usually the avenue for a man who is truly trying to remain pure. The problem is that women could easily remedy the situation by dressing modestly.

Claire said -”I think we need to stop worrying so much about appearances, and worry about more important things. I understand that we supposedly wear our “church clothes” out of respect for God’s house, but it seems like it’s more for the approval of other people. God doesn’t care what we look like, and He darned-well doesn’t care what we wear. Nothing we do can make Him love us more or less than He already does.”

First point here is that if we follow your logic, then there will be no difference between the church and the world. That is not biblical. We are to be set apart and holy. If we claim to know Christ, then we seek to glorify Him on His terms. We DO worry what God thinks, and we DO seek to be separate from the world while we are still in the world. We are not called to conform, but to testify. No, we can’t do anything to make Him love us more or less, but we DO represent a Holy God who has no room for sin of any kind. To dress sinfully misrepresents His Nature and Character.

Scripture is crystal clear that as Christians we are CHANGED from the inside out. If you really love the Truth, then you will not leave when you are confronted with the Truth.

]]> By: Nan http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/1388/comment-page-2#comment-8980 Nan Sun, 02 Oct 2011 08:49:46 +0000 http://sacredsandwich.com/?p=1388#comment-8980 Hello to all. This is my first time seeing this site being sent here by a friend's post on facebook. I have read all the comments and have enjoyed,laughing along and do agree with many of them. I too caused a huge distraction in church as a youngster. Our semi-large family with four daughters and friends tagging along, me being the youngest, spread a good way down the pew but usually still in arms stretching reach of Dad's knee pinch or Momma's "look" she gave. Generally sat on the 2nd row or the 1st row behind the empty one. I believe we sat up front to be a little less distracted looking at the old widowed ladies that always sat in the middle with their fancy hats each week or that perhaps we might actually... listen? Then in the row behind us another family with five children stretched out. It was the "large family need room to space out the kids section" I guess. My Momma was a "PK", Preachers Kid, and raised us to mind our manners while in the Santuary and allow others here the Minister, even if we, ourselves, didn't understand a thing he was saying. We always knew that she or Dad would fill us in later during Sunday lunch at our large family kitchen table. One Sunday morning in church, as it has been told, I was sitting on my Momma's lap "being good". I played with Momma's pretty pearl necklace that she only wore when she dressed up. Well I managed to somehow severely tangle her hair in the clasp and necklace after twirling her hair over and over and over. She asked my Dad to unfasten the necklace because it was pulling her hair. He did and off came the necklace and OOOPPPS, her wiglet too!!! Somehow became also entangled. OOOOPPPPPSSSS! This was, umm, around fourty years ago when the ladies wore the little "wiglet" in their hair, my mother included. They say I screamed LOUDLY after seeing part of Momma's hair come off her head. I believe that was the last time I sat on my Momma's lap during church service. I don't remember this nor ever sitting in my Momma's lap for I was very young when this happened. Our family and church friends often laughed over the story. Years later Momma laughed also! Oh and there was another time too that I DO remember just a few years later. I "whispered" to my sister "I had to go pee" to pass it down to my other sister and so on and on and on until it reached my parents. I remember waiting as long as I could to sit there quietly... trying yet practicing the all known to well, 'the hold it squirm'. Seems that by the time the word came back down to the end of the pew as I guessed they told me to "hold it". I'm sure the all our whispers were ever so quiet too!!! So, I had told her to pass it back down that "it was to late now that I just pee'd on myself". My sisters jumped up one by one out of their seat as our church seemed to be sitting on a ever so slight slope. :) Hello to all. This is my first time seeing this site being sent here by a friend’s post on facebook. I have read all the comments and have enjoyed,laughing along and do agree with many of them. I too caused a huge distraction in church as a youngster. Our semi-large family with four daughters and friends tagging along, me being the youngest, spread a good way down the pew but usually still in arms stretching reach of Dad’s knee pinch or Momma’s “look” she gave. Generally sat on the 2nd row or the 1st row behind the empty one. I believe we sat up front to be a little less distracted looking at the old widowed ladies that always sat in the middle with their fancy hats each week or that perhaps we might actually… listen? Then in the row behind us another family with five children stretched out. It was the “large family need room to space out the kids section” I guess. My Momma was a “PK”, Preachers Kid, and raised us to mind our manners while in the Santuary and allow others here the Minister, even if we, ourselves, didn’t understand a thing he was saying. We always knew that she or Dad would fill us in later during Sunday lunch at our large family kitchen table. One Sunday morning in church, as it has been told, I was sitting on my Momma’s lap “being good”. I played with Momma’s pretty pearl necklace that she only wore when she dressed up. Well I managed to somehow severely tangle her hair in the clasp and necklace after twirling her hair over and over and over. She asked my Dad to unfasten the necklace because it was pulling her hair. He did and off came the necklace and OOOPPPS, her wiglet too!!! Somehow became also entangled. OOOOPPPPPSSSS! This was, umm, around fourty years ago when the ladies wore the little “wiglet” in their hair, my mother included. They say I screamed LOUDLY after seeing part of Momma’s hair come off her head. I believe that was the last time I sat on my Momma’s lap during church service. I don’t remember this nor ever sitting in my Momma’s lap for I was very young when this happened. Our family and church friends often laughed over the story. Years later Momma laughed also! Oh and there was another time too that I DO remember just a few years later. I “whispered” to my sister “I had to go pee” to pass it down to my other sister and so on and on and on until it reached my parents. I remember waiting as long as I could to sit there quietly… trying yet practicing the all known to well, ‘the hold it squirm’. Seems that by the time the word came back down to the end of the pew as I guessed they told me to “hold it”. I’m sure the all our whispers were ever so quiet too!!! So, I had told her to pass it back down that “it was to late now that I just pee’d on myself”. My sisters jumped up one by one out of their seat as our church seemed to be sitting on a ever so slight slope. :)

]]> By: Claire http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/1388/comment-page-2#comment-8877 Claire Sat, 03 Sep 2011 04:25:48 +0000 http://sacredsandwich.com/?p=1388#comment-8877 This is my first time on this site, and I like it so far, but a few of the comments upset me. I’m going to go off-topic for a minute because I feel like I should say something. I can definitely understand why wearing a miniskirt that shows your thong to the whole church isn't exactly appropriate. But at the same time, isn't it petty and un-Christian to judge people by their clothes? I've heard too many sad stories about people being rejected from churches where they probably would have been saved because they didn't follow the dress code. Someone above made a sarcastic comment about praying and repenting in low-rise jeans. Okay, a girl showing her butt crack might not be the most tasteful thing, but the point is she went up to the front to pray and repent! At this point she doesn't care about your opinion, just God's. If she cared what you thought, she wouldn't have gotten up and risked embarrassing herself at all! And even if you want to consider her clothing choice something bad or sinful (which I think would be pretty silly), you have to remember, when someone goes to repent, they don’t already look the part. That comes later when you decide to change your lifestyle to fit your new faith. Also the "hold-on-to-your-husbands!" comment about girls in revealing clothes distracting lusty men is even more offensive to the poor guys that it is the girls. Men aren't just sex-driven animals that sensible women have to restrain. They can control themselves. Anyone who says otherwise is just using the girls’ behavior to excuse the men’s behavior, which is not right. I think we need to stop worrying so much about appearances, and worry about more important things. I understand that we supposedly wear our “church clothes” out of respect for God’s house, but it seems like it’s more for the approval of other people. God doesn’t care what we look like, and He darned-well doesn’t care what we wear. Nothing we do can make Him love us more or less than He already does. This is my first time on this site, and I like it so far, but a few of the comments upset me. I’m going to go off-topic for a minute because I feel like I should say something.
I can definitely understand why wearing a miniskirt that shows your thong to the whole church isn’t exactly appropriate. But at the same time, isn’t it petty and un-Christian to judge people by their clothes? I’ve heard too many sad stories about people being rejected from churches where they probably would have been saved because they didn’t follow the dress code. Someone above made a sarcastic comment about praying and repenting in low-rise jeans. Okay, a girl showing her butt crack might not be the most tasteful thing, but the point is she went up to the front to pray and repent! At this point she doesn’t care about your opinion, just God’s. If she cared what you thought, she wouldn’t have gotten up and risked embarrassing herself at all! And even if you want to consider her clothing choice something bad or sinful (which I think would be pretty silly), you have to remember, when someone goes to repent, they don’t already look the part. That comes later when you decide to change your lifestyle to fit your new faith.
Also the “hold-on-to-your-husbands!” comment about girls in revealing clothes distracting lusty men is even more offensive to the poor guys that it is the girls. Men aren’t just sex-driven animals that sensible women have to restrain. They can control themselves. Anyone who says otherwise is just using the girls’ behavior to excuse the men’s behavior, which is not right.
I think we need to stop worrying so much about appearances, and worry about more important things. I understand that we supposedly wear our “church clothes” out of respect for God’s house, but it seems like it’s more for the approval of other people. God doesn’t care what we look like, and He darned-well doesn’t care what we wear. Nothing we do can make Him love us more or less than He already does.

]]> By: Claire http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/1388/comment-page-2#comment-8876 Claire Sat, 03 Sep 2011 03:18:36 +0000 http://sacredsandwich.com/?p=1388#comment-8876 I go to a Christian college, and all the students are required to go to church. The thing that gets on my nerves more than anything is people like you all have been talking about that just have no reverence in church. A lot of kids are only there to get credit for going. A girl in my class actually brings her books and does her homework. Tonight actually, there were 3 girls in front of me who literally didn't listen to a word of the service. They spent the whole time talking and giggling, knocking each other over and taking pictures of each other with their phones. When the preacher ended the closing prayer, one of the girls cried, "Amen!" but not in agreement with the prayer, she was just ready to get out of there. I think the difference is that most of these kids have been in and and around church and organized religion so much that it doesn't have any meaning for them any more (if it ever did). I'm just being reintroduced to this stuff (I haven't been to church since I was like 10) so it's a treat to me, and I don't have a lot of tolerance for the people who don't appreciate how cool it is to be able to go and pray and learn. I go to a Christian college, and all the students are required to go to church. The thing that gets on my nerves more than anything is people like you all have been talking about that just have no reverence in church. A lot of kids are only there to get credit for going. A girl in my class actually brings her books and does her homework. Tonight actually, there were 3 girls in front of me who literally didn’t listen to a word of the service. They spent the whole time talking and giggling, knocking each other over and taking pictures of each other with their phones. When the preacher ended the closing prayer, one of the girls cried, “Amen!” but not in agreement with the prayer, she was just ready to get out of there. I think the difference is that most of these kids have been in and and around church and organized religion so much that it doesn’t have any meaning for them any more (if it ever did). I’m just being reintroduced to this stuff (I haven’t been to church since I was like 10) so it’s a treat to me, and I don’t have a lot of tolerance for the people who don’t appreciate how cool it is to be able to go and pray and learn.

]]> By: Helen http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/1388/comment-page-2#comment-8690 Helen Sun, 24 Jul 2011 07:55:34 +0000 http://sacredsandwich.com/?p=1388#comment-8690 Oops **! A lesson in DISCRETION! (I'd better not blame Frodo!) Oops **! A lesson in DISCRETION! (I’d better not blame Frodo!)

]]> By: Bereanwarrior http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/1388/comment-page-2#comment-8689 Bereanwarrior Sun, 24 Jul 2011 03:04:26 +0000 http://sacredsandwich.com/?p=1388#comment-8689 @ Helen, We have a young lady in our church right now with a 8 month old child that she feeds and she does it in a manner that draws no attention to herself. Godly women are such a huge blessing to the church body! Thank you for the kind words, and I'll have to talk to Frodo (the Rat Terrier) about not giving away my identity anymore. :) @ Helen,

We have a young lady in our church right now with a 8 month old child that she feeds and she does it in a manner that draws no attention to herself. Godly women are such a huge blessing to the church body! Thank you for the kind words, and I’ll have to talk to Frodo (the Rat Terrier) about not giving away my identity anymore. :)

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